obama is saying no. you will hurt seniors, if we do only spending cuts, we should do revenues as well. who is right? >> i think there is no way to solve the problem without taking an approach somewhat like simpson bowles. they have to put $5 trillion of cost reductions. i thought that plan was reasonably balanced. the devil is in the details. you'll some ways have to do both. there is a scoreboard. >> you are saying obama is right, we need revenue as well as spending cuts? >> you have to get significant entitlement reform. this has got to be substantial and has got to be now. rather than me endorsing either one, but the nearest -- but the deeds to be reform. i have never done a deal without meeting with the other side. i went all of my arguments in my own congress -- conference room. it is only when i open up the doors that the world really stinks. i came here to talk about any faction and not this, but i would feel much better if -- i do not know how anything gets done unless you sit and negotiate. busi